Menopause Mixtape
Menopause Mixtape is the unfiltered conversations about the challenges, messy realities and addresses the things no one thought to mention about (peri)menopause. Erin & Michelle bring the laughs, real stories, and audience participation! Because these conversations are better when we're all in it!
Menopause Mixtape
The Insomnia Episode
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Sleep... what sleep?
In this episode, Erin and Michelle are talking about insomnia in perimenopause. From restless nights and 3 a.m. wake-ups to racing thoughts and the impact of sleep deprivation on everyday functioning.
Why is a good night's sleep so damn hard to find?! How can hormones impact us so strongly, and what can we do about it? Let's dig in!
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Original Art: Ori Desormeaux
Music composed by : Christian McFadden
Welcome to Menopausmix tape. Life got weird, and we hit Rick Hard.
SPEAKER_02Hello. I'm Aaron. I'm Michelle. And this is Metapon's Mixtape. Okay, so hello everyone in our listener sphere. Um, welcome to, I don't even know, like the fifth episode, I think.
SPEAKER_00We're recording the fifth, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we are recording the fifth. Um, so I just want to talk about how the world sometimes uses, you know, what's that called, serendipity or whatever. And this might not even be the case. And I'm gonna tell you why I'm so scattered, Michelle. Um, and listeners, uh, kind of piggybacking off last episode where we were talking about sort of pre-planning everything and our energy bank and scoobity-doobity-doo. Um, well, I had an unanticipated situation last night uh in that a friend asked me, well, a friend implied that they were needing to go to the ER. Perfect, right? So I was like, yes, absolutely. Like, I'm gonna show up. Nobody needs to sit, to be very fair, like nobody needs to sit by themselves in an emergency room. No, especially with wait times in Ontario. I don't know where everybody's listening here, but wait times in Ontario can be long, and it's okay because it's just bring a tent, right? And also, yeah, right. Um, and a snack, I've learned. Um, so basically we got there around midnight, and I got home this morning at 7:50.
SPEAKER_00I want to vomit.
SPEAKER_02Right. So there was I I stayed up for two, a two, four, a 24-hour, I was a 24-hour, and then I went to bed at promptly 8 a.m.
SPEAKER_00Perfect.
SPEAKER_02Ugh. Yeah, I know. And uh, I haven't pulled an all-nighter in a very long time. But no, but um I was awake and ready to go and live my life at 11:30.
SPEAKER_00Ew.
SPEAKER_02Right. I like was jolted awake at 11:30, being like, yep, my body was like, let's do this.
SPEAKER_00So you got a you got a whopping three, three and a half hours sleep last night this today.
SPEAKER_02So I want to apologize to everyone if like my brain is not it really truly is not firing on all cylinders, no cylinders. Um, but it led me to like ponder as I laid there rageful in my bed, wanting to try, like, you know, willing myself to go back to school.
SPEAKER_00Ah, it's the worst feeling.
SPEAKER_02Counting sheep, doing the alphabet game, like it didn't matter. My body was like, listen, lady, time to get up. So um, but it made me start to ponder like I've been experiencing insomnia, which I think we've kind of discussed or maybe touched on. And I like, is it true of even if you like? I was thinking of all my shift work ladies and like people who are experienced. Shout out, yeah, perimenopause in like the mad, like you know, uh shifts. Do they also experience like insomnia, but at like where you're hitting your four-hour sleep or three hour sleep mark, and then you're just like, and we're awake.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I do work in a realm of shift work. I uh no longer participate in the night shift, but I do work uh in the environment where a number of my colleagues do do shift work. And so a lot of them they don't sleep at night, they don't sleep during the day. They don't sleep. Really? Yeah, 100%. And I think so. I have insomnia. I have had insomnia my entire life. Okay, uh, like since childhood, but it definitely got worse at about age 38. Okay. So, and at the time, perimenopause wasn't even in the lexicon, like nobody was talking about it. And it was just like, why am I so crazy? Why am I can't I can't sleep? I can't, I'm literally not sleeping. Um, and it went down the rabbit hole of like maybe you have mania, and maybe you are bipolar, like it really got to some really uncomfortable places. Um and so long story longer, I as I've gotten further into perimenopause, my sleep issues have gotten worse and worse and worse. Right. And now, I mean, full disclosure, I am on medication to help me get a full night's sleep. Um, but I certainly know a ton of people that they have sort of a three or four hour window. And especially I want to say women over 40 or like getting to that late 30s into their 40s and above, that they literally are just raw dogging life on three hours of sleep a day. Right. Which is unbelievable. Yes.
SPEAKER_02I got more sleep when I had a newborn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I mean, I think we all thought that the sleep-deprived era of womanhood was going to be people really highlight the you have a newborn baby, you sleep when they sleep, you know, you're up every couple hours, you know. Nobody warned me again. This is a this comes up every time you and I sit down and talk here, but nobody warned me that in middle life, perimenopause, sleep is like, bye, peace out. Yeah, you don't we don't, and it's funny because you need more sleep. Right. You're so tired, you're so exhausted. I'm I mean, I'm so exhausted. The people I'm speaking to just you know at work or in my day-to-day life, like we're all exhausted and sleep is elusive. Is that the word? Like, yeah, no, it's it's literally, it's definitely eluding me.
SPEAKER_02I'll tell you that for free. No doubt. Like, legitimately, it is bonkers that I can be so tired, but function. Like, I'm what I mean is like I I even if I'm like, okay, Saturday night, gonna go to bed at 10. Absolutely, like my husband's like sleep until like I don't even care if you sleep till five o'clock the next day. Like, you need to catch up on your sleep. Yeah. And then I'm like 3:30 in the morning, shwab. How's it going? And I'm like on my phone, which I know I tried to do the sleep hygiene. Yes, I tried to do all that, but then you get like so anxious, so I just get up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so it like I and that's I don't know if that's the right thing to do either. But it's just like I'm either laying there tossing and turning and like ruminating about my whole life and like all the mistakes I've made in my entire like existence.
SPEAKER_00That one time you said that one thing exactly that made you look like a total a-hole, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah, that whole thing where I'm just like, damn, if I could only like talk to that girl uh again and apologize. But um, or I like I go on my phone because and then I start like doom scrolling about you know insomnia, right? I I'm just like, someone please help me. There's like a there should be like an SOS, like an app where other people who can't carry menopause are up so we can be like, girl, what's up? Right? Like, I just what's got you tonight? Exactly. Night sweats? How's it going? Restless legs, right? Instead of having like we see the green dot in like Instagram and people are like, hey, and you're like, I don't actually want to talk to you. Instead, you like just an actual app that you make the conscious effort to be like, what's up? Like, are you not sleeping either?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, it's it's kind of it's for lack of a better term, like it's it like crazy making. Like I I will ruminate and then I'll go, I'll lay down again at like 5 15 when my husband goes to work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then I'm out like a light.
SPEAKER_00No, isn't that always the way? Like finally at 6 a.m., I can get the best sleep of my life, except I need to get out of bed at 6 a.m.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And I'm like, oh good, 7.10, really rolled around quickly. Yeah. I was just like, you know, getting into that beautiful dream state. And then it's like my Alexa's like, what's up? You need to get up. Yeah. Like sleep for 10 minutes. Right. Or snooze. Snooze. My my dogs don't even stir on the bed.
SPEAKER_00Because they know.
SPEAKER_02I'm 100% like s Alexa snooze for 10 minutes and then it like will snooze me for 10 minutes and then come back on. And the dogs are like, We're not ready yet. Obviously, she's not ready. And then as soon as I say Alexa off, they're like, Well, time to go down.
SPEAKER_00Time to get up. They know that that's the cue.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm I've trained them because I'm just like, don't even bother getting up, kids, because we're we're not doing that yet. But this has become the routine, and I don't know how to break it. And when I speak to my like my doctor, well, do you need some like sleep aids? Which fine and dandy, and I I would appreciate something. However, I'm worried about like hangover because I'm really bad with that kind of like yeah, I can't have foggier brain.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have this like fear too of like I'm gonna go on sleep aids and then uh fast forward 20, 25 years, 30 years, etc. Am I still walking around with a bag of sleep aids? Like trying to like, is there an end to this at all? You know, again and again, we don't know. We have no idea if this is a temporary phase, like, or are we going, you know, are like are we going to hit our mid-60s, 70? Maybe we'll get some sleep then. I don't know because we certainly weren't getting it in our 20s, we definitely weren't getting it in our 30s. Now in our 40s, we're also not getting sleep.
SPEAKER_02No, and then and then you look at the people in their golden years, they're like on the golf course or at the swimming pool at like 5 45. So, like, are they a like are they going to bed at the crack of 6 8 like 6 p.m.? I don't like no like or do you need less sleep? Like, this is a whole thing to me. Like, sleep has become very much a central piece of my life, like where I'm like counting it it as like it's gold, like no, nobody wake me up, or oh, I would I I think I've said previously that sleep is my reward to myself.
SPEAKER_00Like if I make it, I get through a number of chores, errands, what it's socialization, whatever during the day, then I get to go to bed early. So I I can see myself being in a golden year and calling it night night at about 5, 6 p.m. I can absolutely see that, but I'm not an early riser, never have been.
SPEAKER_02No, I I used to like I can't even throw shade at my kids because yeah, I at 27 before my kids came along. If I had a day off sleep till 5 p.m. 100% and go back to bed at 8 30, yep, and be just living my like I miss that poor, like amazing soul. People are like, Don't you feel like you've wasted a day? I'm like, wasted, no, you know how many lives I've lived in my dreams? Thank you, right?
SPEAKER_00And also like the next number of days are going to be well fueled.
SPEAKER_02Yes, because I worked my ass off too when I was working, right? And I like also maybe partook in like some partying at the same time because I'm like young, right? But like honestly, it's weird how I'm like, I don't know. I wish I like well, I'll be like, I'll set the conditions, the temperature. My poor, poor husband. Like, honestly, he has been so amazing in that the head of our bed is exact is right at a window.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02So it's a large wind, because we have an old house, so it's a large window. I open that window, yeah, in sub-zero weather.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna say dead of winter, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He's woken up. I've well actually I've woken up and I've looked over to him. He's got a toque, and for any American listeners, like a beanie on his head. He's got like four quilts in a duvet, and he's trying his very he's like snuggled with the dog as a heat uh source, and I'm in like a sheet and just like living, I'm like, ah, there's like snow piling on my forehead, and I'm like, this is probably the best way I've ever felt in my life. So that like, so I do like I'm a like it's not like I'm being policed in my in my like sleeping conditions. Like there's blackout curtains, there's like the noise makers, like there's all the things. Yeah, my brain's still like, no, thank you.
SPEAKER_00No, thank you. Not for you.
SPEAKER_02Try again tomorrow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I went through years of struggling with sleep hygiene. So putting the screens away super early so that there was like a one to two hour or three hour window of no screen time, uh, window open, fan on, you know, um calming exercises, sleep stories, sleep playlists, no playlist, no story, read a book, da da. I mean, cutting off caffeine at a certain time in the day because I thought, well, I can remember like women in my life saying, Oh, I don't, I don't drink coffee after 2 p.m. or I, you know, I don't drink anything after 6 p.m. so that they don't have to get up and pee or whatever. And to no avail. To no to no avail. Sleep was not happening.
SPEAKER_02As an aside listeners, I don't know if anyone has perused sleep stories, and by sleep stories I mean bedtime stories. And may I suggest if anybody's out there and finds Tom Hardy to be sexy, uh, he does an entire children's series of bedtime stories.
SPEAKER_00I've seen the videos of it actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's all you need. And they're only like two minutes long. So if anybody wants to commit, I'm just saying, like, let's give that, give our boy a shout-out. Because I he has gotten me through some some lonely times, but I digress. But yes, so exactly what you're saying though, I've meditated, I've done like sleep yoga, nidra yoga nidra, like I've done it all uh, I got like the grounding sheets and the like I'm at this point where like if I've I've done hypnotism, like it's getting to a point. Wow, I know, but I think so. This is why I'm like, if all my other perimenopause symptoms are as strong as they are, yeah, this insomnia, it would I would argue, would also then be a bit of a a demon that I have to slay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's gonna be difficult.
SPEAKER_00And uh so when you're in perimenopause and you're having sleep disturbances, I I that is such a gentle way of putting the lack of sleep, but it's the best words I can come up with at this point. Um have you found anything that's helping at all? I mean, obviously you're only sleeping three and a half hours a night, so I guess the answer is no.
SPEAKER_02I had like this like weird window that kind of gave me a false sense of security. Where I again with my gummies, but I was like meaning my vitamin gummies, I was like taking my progesterone, then I would take my magnesium, and I would sometimes throw in a melatonin for funsies because I also have IBS. Shout out to the IBS girls, but um, so melatonin helps with IBS. What? Okay, that yes, I had no idea. Yeah, melatonin calms your digestion and really helps people with IBS sleep through the night because you won't get like surprise if you're bathing now trips, yeah. Um, so which because I'm like that was a big content point of contention also for sleep aids for me. Having IBS, which really is super active in the middle of the night, TMI people, but regardless, we're we're way past that as a as a uh podcast.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, um my fear was that I would be under the influence of a sleep aid and not have the best control over the downstairs region when it comes to the IBS, the leaky.
SPEAKER_02And the other, like the leaky crawl space, right? So, like this is why I say like because I've made the mistake of getting the wrong magnesium.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right, because there's multiple different kinds of magnesium.
SPEAKER_02So the magnesium by glycinate or whatever is the one for your like sleep. Okay, so everybody knows that the one that's either starts with a B or G, sleep, muscle, relax, yeah. Magnesium citrate. Oh no, that's a that's a laxative a hundred percent. So mama didn't know that. Oh, mama should have called a friend. So mama went and bought like a roll on oh from like an Amazon situation, perfect. That's where you want to get all of your most healthy in a desperate place, anyway. So, and I had obviously not done any research, but I was like, magnesium. I thought it I was under the impression magnesium is magnesium is magnesium, incorrect, a hundred percent. So, I of course, being the person that I am, I'm not sleeping. Let's it said like roll on the bottoms of your feet, so like for relaxation or whatever. I was like, okay, I'm like feet, elbows, neck, put it on my thighs. Like, I was just like, yeah, and by like about 2:15, my body was like, we're evacuating any that's in your body. So, like, this is what I mean. So I have this like fear of being on a sleep aid. So make so uh melatonin actually boasts that another side effect is that it calms the digestion for IBS that you don't have an emergency like evacuation of the city.
SPEAKER_00Okay, tips and tricks. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it was like a woo-hoo, but I digress. The whole point is is that it's so hard to balance this like body issue, body needing sleep, brain needing sleep, because everybody's like, Oh, your brain needs the sleep to repair, and then you won't have the fog and flah flah flah flah flah. So I did have this like tiny window where I got very confident that I had found the combination.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it just it worked, and then it didn't work anymore.
SPEAKER_02No, and so now I'm like in this like desperate place where I'm like, should I just like take matters in my own hands and like double up my HRT or like do whatever, right? Because I'm like, I guess so. That's what I'm saying. Like at this point, I'm like, should I, you know, drink NyQuil? Like, I don't know. Okay, please don't drink NyQuil. Well, I won't. I mean, but I'm saying, like, you know, when you're at like 3 a.m. and you're just like sitting there and you're like, Yeah, I don't know, like I can't do another night because you know you see your day, especially because my whole job is brain work. Yeah, and so I'm just like sitting there, like, okay, I re I have caught like some challenging like events coming in my day. I want to show up in my best way. Fucking sleep, brain. Like, I'm just like, I'm like trying to meditate.
SPEAKER_00You're bargaining with your own mind, begging, just give me enough rest that I can perform and my just basic job and you know, get through the day. And yet here we are. And you're doing like mental math because you're like, okay, if I fall asleep right now and I get up at whatever, right, I will get three hours and 45 minutes sleep, which if I is so good, right?
SPEAKER_02No, you're a hundred percent right on that, and you roll over and it's been 45 more minutes, and you're like, fine, I fall asleep in the next five minutes. So, like, it becomes a whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I have tried, like I talked myself in my head about any topic that isn't distressing. So my brain will try and come up with like, remember that time that you tripped on the curb and you were with those really cool girls, and you just ate it. And remember how embarrassing that was? Like my brain wants to go there, so then I'll be like, I'm gonna spell the word snow over and over and over. S N O W. And I literally will do that, and then I wake up in just a couple hours and I do the we'll pick a new word, and here we go. I just spell the word. Over it's a bonkers what we I am doing in my head, the mental gymnastics just to go the fuck to sleep, right? And I've seen I've witnessed, believe this or don't, I've seen people who put their head on the pillow, oh close their eyes and go to sleep. And they don't wake up for like seven hours and they look refreshed, right? Who what is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_02They feel fantastic. So this is my whole thing too. Like, I feel like there is like a uh a I don't know what I want to call them, like a colony, no, yeah, a collection of like women or people experiencing like like perimenopause in a in an umbrella term, but they don't have insomnia as part of their like wheelhouse. Is it wrong that I'm upset? Yeah, no, I mean I mean, I wouldn't win, I would honestly not wish this on my worst enemy. I would not well, maybe my some of my worst enemies, but like legitimately not like it's it's it's torture, yes. It is it's actual torture. There's a reason why they use sleep deprivation as a form of torture, yes, and here we are.
SPEAKER_00Our hormones are just like here, right? For a job well done, your reward is yeah, drum roll, please, no sleep. And if you do fall asleep, you might wake up soaking wet from a the night sweats. I I I definitely have friends who thought they had insomnia under control and then rolled into the night sweat arena.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that and it was just like hold my beer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you're definitely not sleeping now.
SPEAKER_02I was a night sweats person before the HRT.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, hell.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had it very mildly. I I did I can't say that I experienced night sweats like super bad. Um, but I definitely have friends like where they're changing their sheets, their pajamas, the you know, the whole operation, 3 a.m. They have to. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me with this? Yeah, changing your sheets at 3 a.m. What? This is bananas. So not only now we're insomniacs and we're sopping wet from night sweats, and then you try and go back to sleep because you've remade your bed, you're wide awake, but now you know your body's aching, everything like this is a joke at this point, and the investment.
SPEAKER_02So, like I invested in the cooling sheets and the cooling mattress, it's a whole industry, right? And the cooling pillow that at all times is cold. And I'm like, the fuck you are the like honestly, like you haven't met this hot ass body accepted, and uh it was like unless there's like a literal, like I wondered, you know, like in the hospitals, or I'm imagining this and it might only be on Superman or something, but there's like uh like or maybe we I'm inventing something, but it's like um almost like a mattress cover, but there's like hoses running through it, and like it's cooled, cooled, yeah, that's right. Yeah, cooled by water. Yep. Right. So that's a thing, right?
SPEAKER_00It is a thing.
SPEAKER_02I wondered, like I was like 4 a.m. searching on Amazon for like a pipe color pipe cooled mattress cover. Like they were like, no, girl, like that doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_00It's not safe. Listen, the there's risks, like we do use those blankets in hospitals, but we use them with continuous temperature monitoring. Oh, and we try to avoid hypothermia. Okay. Oh, I forgot about that. Let's there is a risk with those that you will drop your body temperature to a point that is unsafe. So I'm not gonna recommend an at-home cooling blanket. Okay.
SPEAKER_02True story, but like they exist, so I didn't make that up, but they felt like but when you're in the throws, like that's the thing that both insomnia and hot flashes makes like you you aren't in your like you're in fight or flight. Yeah, like you almost become so desperate, and I can understand then why people buy like these magic potions. Anything or they'll buy anything, like magic sheets.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, the cooling sheets, the the different vitamin supplement world that's like full of like sleep, you know, stories. It's gonna tell you that it's gonna help you get a better night's sleep. I'm trying to think of other pro I mean, there's like you said, there's sound machines that are supposed to produce, I think it's brown noise.
SPEAKER_02Oh girl, I have brown, pink, white. Like, I'm not even kidding. I have one that produces like 16 different types and a heartbeat. Right.
SPEAKER_00Just in case you wanted to go back to your fetal days.
SPEAKER_02Pretty much. I was like, yeah, I've tried them all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, best sleep I ever had was in utero, so I'm heading back.
SPEAKER_02You know, sometimes the best now, honestly, I think what is the chance? If I could like get a thing that would like prop my head up, the best sleep I bet you I could get is in my bathtub.
SPEAKER_00Like, in the sense that that is so you though. That is very on brand. That is my worst nightmare, right? And listen, I was actually as right before you said that, I was thinking, where are my ladies at who were in perimenopause in the 80s when waterbeds were all the rage? I had a heated water under your wet, hot body. What listener? If you're one of these women who raw dog perimenopause in the 80s and did it whilst riding a heated waterbed, let me know how did that go for you? I feel like that would be a form of torture, right?
SPEAKER_02And even just like there's so much about a water bed that's torture, to be very honest with you. Are you a bowling ball or are you a human being? Right. I remember my parents being like, surprise, we got you all water beds. And I was like, Okay. Um, that's the whole thing. It's so much wood, too. Like the foundation of the bed, like the weight of those beds was insane. We're getting off topic, but like legitimately, um, you could in theory cool the waterbed. Yes, but then that gets me back into my hypothermia stage. I probably I feel like.
SPEAKER_00I feel like all yeah, and there's I don't know. I yeah, I think the state of the rubber liner that housed like the giant balloon that you were sleeping on. The ladder, the blad, yeah, the bladder of the waterbed. I feel like it would only be comfortable to lie on if it was warmed up a little bit, versus being sort of like, you know, when you go and sit in like on a cold car seat or something. Do you know what I'm saying? Like the No, I agree.
SPEAKER_02I guess there's sheets, but well, to be honest with you, and to be totally transparent, my parents would be like, we only like you only have like electricity allowance of like 15 minutes to heat your bed up. So I actually only have a frigid uh waterbed. But now I long for those days.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, maybe that's gonna be maybe that is a pro tip. I don't know. No, girl, I just invested in a craft matic bed.
SPEAKER_02It's not a craft matic, that's uh that's a throwback. That's a yeah, but one of those adjustable beds. Yeah, because I now have realized too with my back and my lower back pain. Thank you, Carry Minnow has plus not sleeping. It doesn't matter, whole thing. I like to be cradled. So now I sleep in a zero gravity position.
SPEAKER_00You know what I'm actually picturing right now, Aaron? I'm picturing you at 3:30 in the morning not being able to sleep, just going up in the bed, down in the bed, knees up in the bed, knees down, and Josh just being like, I oh, pardon me. Sorry about the name use. Okay. Um just being like, oh my gosh, it's gonna drive me crazy. Because just might as well play with the controls on the bed while they can't that would be me. That would a hundred percent be me.
SPEAKER_02Like and my husband's eyelids are made of what I can only assume is tissue paper. So, like, because and he sort of like like it, it has to be as dark as night.
SPEAKER_00Right. He can sleep, he he can see through his own eyelids. So exactly.
SPEAKER_02So he's always like, it's too bright. I'm like, dude, like I don't even know what you're talking about. So the bed, when you adjust it, there's a light that comes on.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_02What why I love it. I'm like, yeah, because I don't be like, oh, whatever. Or if I'm on my phone scrolling, or if I like use the washroom, like an or ensuite has a night light because that's who I am. Someday I'm gonna invest in a Japanese toilet, but we'll get into that some other day. But I want one that's heated and says hello, Aaron, when I like come in, but regardless, um he's like, Who turned on the sun? So not only is my insomnia affecting me, but this is his delicate eyelids can't deal with like parent like eyelid. I gotta start, I gotta start a foundation for people who have like tissue paper eyelids, but because and I'm like sleep, I gotta have a sleep mask, and he's like, and I'm like, fine, then you have to like I guess if I'm suffering, you're suffering. This is part of the for better, for worse.
SPEAKER_00Maybe, maybe it is, but I think I'm I'm thinking that there's a whole plethora of products where not only so we as parametapausal women are investing in cooling sheets and sleep supplements and sleep stories, and this it goes the list goes on, but now our spouses should be investing in sleep scarves and sleep masks and sleep whatever you need. Parkas, parkas 100%. Like, I don't see why we should be the ones who are investing all of our hard-earned money. Let me lay here on my ice flow and you just adjust, please, and thank you.
SPEAKER_02Right. And I feel that there's like almost the same as the pink tax, or like when you get married and you say somebody knew, dude, somebody was like perimenopausal women are suffering. Cha-ching. Because the best I'm gonna shout out to nobody who sponsors us yet. But if anybody wants to sponsor us with those migraine helmets, oh yeah, I don't even use it as a migraine helmet. If I'm having a hot flash, sanity helmet, oh my god, right. I feel like Magneto, and I'm just like put this on, and it's like the exact right cooling.
SPEAKER_00I haven't I haven't gone down that path.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, it's that neoprene feeling material.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02You throw it in a freezer and it's got a cutout for like the bridge of your nose. But other than that, it comes down to your speaking of getting sexier as we age. You pair that with like my mouth guard because of the anxiety, and like we haven't even started to really touch the tip of the iceberg of the hotness that I am. Um, but literally, it's got it's like a it's like a swim cap that is just cold that covers your eyes and your whole head, and it's a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_00So, partner gets a sleep mask and a sleep scarf, you will get a perimenopause helmet, right? And as it will henceforth forever be named the Mary Pause Marypause. Yeah, what the perimenopause helmet. Yeah, maybe not. I mean, have you tried sleeping with the perimetopause helmet?
SPEAKER_02Yes, so I then then my anxiety kicks in that. Right, you're trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. Right. Somehow it's a prison down my face, and I'm not gonna notice, and then it's gonna choke me while I'm sleeping. But um I know it's it's a lot, yeah. There's so much. I did get the headband with the eye goggles and that has the earphones in it too.
SPEAKER_00I we haven't had a slumber party in a while, but I'm starting to think maybe for the sake of the podcast, if nothing else, we should probably have a sleepover.
SPEAKER_02One of my one of my like um a not sleepover, right? Yeah, right, like an zombie over. Um, one of my uh quirks is that uh so if I like as a neurospicy human being, the thing that people were like, oh, how do I know my partner's neurosy? Is because I own every infomercial gadget.
SPEAKER_00Oh Lord.
SPEAKER_02I have always been the person who's like people will come over to my house and be like, what oven mit is this? I'm like, it's the Ofglove. And then like, and they're like, what? And I'm like, all my products are Starfrit. Like it's I had the sham wow, like a slap chop. Like I've had it all. And so this is why when I'm like, oh, this is happening, let me try it.
SPEAKER_00Let me go to an infomercial and see if this helmet will suck right in. The helmet idea though, the perimetopause helmet idea, which is a soft product and not actually a helmet to be clear. Yes, uh, I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.
SPEAKER_02Steven as a migraine, so even my kid who played like soccer in the middle of nowhere and in the like where there's no shade in soccer fields typically, um, and it's like 4,000 degrees and they're playing tournaments. When he would um come home, he would put this migraine helmet on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or migraine, I don't know what it's actually called, but migraine done a spirit, but it would cool his temperature down, and that's what actually gave me the idea for my hot flashes. I was like, well, he's like, Mom, it's like so great. And I was like, uh, and I'm like, give it, don't forget to put it back in the freezer.
SPEAKER_00Don't be bogarting my perimenopause gap. I need that.
SPEAKER_02So she's been adopted less as a migraine situation, more as a hot flash situation. So anybody, if they that's a hot tip, but or cold tip, I guess. But but no, but sincerely, this insomnia shenanigans, I think is altering my personality in a way that as we can tell, I'm a little more chatty, I'm a little more fired up, and I'm a little more scattered. I can't bring that into my career, so it's a very hard thing for me to manage. So this is why I need to fix it.
SPEAKER_00I definitely have to protect my sleep when it comes to if I have to work the next day. Yes. I can't, uh, I do work in a rather sort of high stress environment, high stakes environment. And I need to be able to have be firing on all cylinders, you know. And so if I'm not getting sleep, then I I would say that, you know, there is a lot of discussion going on right now around like loss of work productivity in menopause uh and perimenopausal women. Absolutely. And I would say, you know, there's definitely a component of this insomnia making it so that you can't rest well enough to go and perform at your job.
SPEAKER_02No, whatever your job is, and you can't call in insomnia. Like it's a good one.
SPEAKER_00Oh girl, I sorry, boss, but like I definitely have called in insomnia.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00At least I I want maybe once or twice. It's not like a regular thing.
SPEAKER_02I have no definitely call in to accept myself, but yeah, dear self, you're not working today.
SPEAKER_00But no, I've definitely said, you know, I have had zero hours sleep.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I cannot go to work.
SPEAKER_02But I feel like that's protective.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I don't think so. Interesting with you know, the the current research, if you want to call it that, or um information that's coming out about the loss of productivity in the workplace. I don't think it's a safe place yet. Like I can't say, listen, I'm going through perimenopause, I'm not sleeping. I, you know, I'm going to need some sick time. That's not really it is it's not a thing.
SPEAKER_02Shifting.
SPEAKER_00I hope.
SPEAKER_02It is shifting because there's a lot of policies that are being pushed through, especially in the states. I belong to like this um, there's a really great documentary, The M Factor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The M Factor is more about menopause like post sort of, but the M Factor II before the pause is actually really informative, but it's also really supported the narrative of safer and or accommodations at work for perimenopause women and menopause women. And because we're seeing if there's a shift from the 50s and 60s and 70s, that women are leaving the home and becoming like in they're not sticking to sort of um this narrative that women are just robots and they just like can do all of it and they're always fine. And they're starting to recognize that women are moving into higher power and like positions and things like that. And they're claiming their femininity, like they're claiming their womanhood too at the same time and being like, I'm not actually, I'm still an amazing CEO. Yeah, but but I'm also yeah in in paramount of pause. So it's I think as people like as women are getting higher and more power in the like sort of corporate America, let's say, it's starting a narrative of accommodation and or recognizing that this is a real thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think we it's we have to change the narrative in the sense of like it's not a weakness. Oh no, no, no, right? So, yes, we are making light of a lot of perimetopause symptoms, and we are having a laugh here for sure. But be to be very clear, like we're very serious about how debilitating it can be, but it's not a weakness, it doesn't turn you into a person who is incapable. No, right? Like it's I'm asking for a minute because I don't sleep.
SPEAKER_02But that's so that comes back to like any argument of anybody who has for like literally, I'm only using this word because again, haven't slept, but like anybody who's experiencing any sort of deficits, whether it be sleep, whether it be like physical, whether it be mental, whatever that the world is created for like this like certain ecstatic level of functionality. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's like not even actually real, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02No, it's a hundred percent a made-up, like what is that consumerism slash capitalist mentality. However, because like Europe is completely different, so we're really speaking just about Western society. Um so having, for lack of a better term, but like really truly an accommodation, yeah, allows them to hit that level of like productivity that's silly, but uh is real, yeah, but it gives people like pause. Like if you're having a hot flash, there's a cold room. Like I don't sound so silly, but like sometimes you have a headache, migraines because hormones cause migraines. There's a dark room that you can go and have like a little 20-minute nap or rest while your Advil kicks in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Or if you've only gotten three and a half hours sleep the night before, yeah, you have the option of doing some quiet resetting in the workplace so that you can then sort of pull that all day or and get through your the the shift or whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_02Right. So those accommodations are not about deaf, like they're not about us being like fan or deficient. It's about like in order for us to perform at our best, yeah, these accommodations should be in like in put into place.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we should start calling them power stations. Right. That's what I've just decided just here now on the spot. So I'm going to the dark power station, I'm going to the cooling power station. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, that's really what you're doing is sort of plugging in to whatever, leaning into whatever it is that is putting you at at a step down and saying, Nope, we're gonna face this head on, we're gonna deal with this hot flash, we're gonna deal with this migraine, and then hopefully I can jump back into the day.
SPEAKER_02And like any other thing that like that when someone is supported in like in the long term, the results are so much better, I'm sure. Right, than say somebody who pushes through.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the productivity end result is better.
SPEAKER_02Yes, because then they quit or go on like stress leave.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, and I wonder with you know, with trying to stay, you know, loop it back in, like with insomnia and being a predominant uh a symptom of perimetopause, like are people going on prolonged leaves? Yes, right? Because they can't, if you can't sleep at night, you can't do a Monday to Friday. Like you can't, you know, I have the sort of an alternative schedule where I will work any given day of the week. It's not a Monday to Friday gig. Um, and so I might have to go at 110% on Monday, Tuesday, but I know Wednesday I can collapse, I can sleep or do whatever it is in place of sleep that I'm doing. Yeah. You know, but for the people that have to. really hit that you know that alarm 6 a.m. five days a week forget it you're going off you're going on a leave because you're you're if you're not sleeping you're just gonna get more and more and more unwell right and that's the whole like and then like looking at the person as a whole which I think we'll we will touch on in a different episode but like it then starts to affect mental health a hundred percent so then the mental health piece becomes the actual like focus instead of being like actually the root causes that I don't have this accommodation around my insomnia yeah that's affecting yeah my productivity which affects my mental health so like people don't look down the chain at like the root cause root cause love that I was really lucky I I had I eventually came upon a physician in my life who became my primary care provider who when faced with my diagnosis of depression said you know I really think it's best practice to do a sleep study oh okay in people that are diagnosed with depression and I was like what what I thought sleep studies were just for people with sleep apnea I had no idea and he went you know he he was able to let me know that no like there can be some root causes of depression that are seated in lack of sleep. Okay. And so sure enough I had the sleep study done and I was diagnosed with a sleep disorder. Interesting. And then we were able to tackle um accommodating that as a base treatment as a part of my base treatment for depression. Right. But I feel like I'm a unicorn like I've haven't heard that story from anyone else. Right.
SPEAKER_02And that's but unless women strongly advocate advocate but I don't and again we're gonna really unpack this another episode but like I I think some sort of food for thought especially for like our listenership is like the way that the medical system is set up to like the way they pathologize the female body in that or any human body it's like there's allogists for everything and no one communicates with anyone yeah so when I'm going to the gynecologist yeah they're not talking to your cardiologist. Right and they're not which about my heart flutters. Yeah and then I'm like my vision's fucked so no one's talking to my optometrist or my whatever that allogist is. Yeah. And then like uh I've got ear ringing and tinnitus and like itchy ears like mother trucker. Right. Like no one's talking to the audiologist like everybody is like sending me to podiatrists and thingabadoodles but no one is saying hold on are these all like fruit of the same tree hormonally fucked tree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I think that we definitely will have to do an episode on uh just the idea that like we like today we're talking about insomnia in a silo but if you were to really you know break it down there are a whole puzzle a plethora of perimenopausal symptoms that if they were treated as perimenopause in a holistic way, we wouldn't have to go and see a thousand different allogists and have a pill for my knee and a pill for my insomnia and a pill for my mental health andor a treatment say a physiotherapist and a this and a that you know we we we might be able to land on a more holistic treatment.
SPEAKER_02Yes where it's one provider or one a smaller group of providers that are saying this is perimenopause and let's try this right because I feel if the perimenopause gets treated so say my insomnia like let's just throw this around say my insomnia is actually a sleep disorder but it is like if but or it isn't unfortunately I'm just focusing on the insomnia but if I could treat the perimenopause and say the insomnia goes away ding ding ding right but instead if I went to my doctor and I do love my doctor but like she can only know what I say to her right and I say with my presenting issue what is it insomnia yeah right so then she would be like how about we give you like some sleep support or you know baba like it's never like let's look at like when's the last time you had your period because it has nothing to do with my sleep in general like as from like a bird's eye view.
SPEAKER_00Right right but in fact it it does yes like let's influencing it absolutely is influencing my sleep I don't I actually don't I'm sitting here now and I actually can't think of one person female in my age group that I'm friends with or colleagues of or am family members with that isn't suffering with insomnia okay literally it feels as we're sitting here talking about it I'm like this is actually like an epidemic at this point. Like it's it's ridiculous the number of people that and women in perimetopause that aren't sleeping.
SPEAKER_02Yes and I think that that is a really it's and like what kind of going back to your coffee at like don't 2 p.m yeah to cut off the hard gun amount of like monster drinks oh but then like so you like and not I don't consume those personally but like you just know like or like any sort of energy drinks they're putting it in like McDonald's drinks now. They have like like you know the Red Bull smoothie at Arby's or whatever like it were like in this like point where I'm seeing all these like hyper caffeinated things. Yes yeah which brings me back to the old like Jolt Cola and the like wake ups of the yesteryear yesterday but right uh it made because I used to think like who other than like high school students who's buying wake ups and now I'm like oh okay it's moms actually uh are buying and like like because I'm like but then it's wine o'clock when you get home yeah because you're wired. Yeah you're absolutely jacked up on energy drinks or wake up pills or you know a hundred coffees from your favorite brewer or whatever it is that you're Starbucks is like so high in caffeine it's higher than monster drinks.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow like that's why I feel like I could run through a brick wall and I love them though for those days that I don't sleep 100%.
SPEAKER_02But that's why I'm saying like in general it's like interesting the way that we're like we gotta hurry up to slow down. So now we're like and but everything like you have all those like what do the kids call it the chewy boards that say like it's wine o'clock like all they call the the chewy moms but um but like you know like those kind of like and that no shade to those people but I'm saying my mom was into folk art like I am all I've I've rejected wood based decorating for a very long time. But like you know those ones that say like wine o'clock or in like the t-shirts there's like so that's almost like this promoting of they've recognized that there's like kind of really truly if you step back from it a toxic pattern of like people but I'm gonna argue most of the people that I know in like the female world yeah are chasing the the energy yeah and then and then chasing the sleep.
SPEAKER_00Exactly yeah and isn't it interesting that they can commodify all of it that's right like just if you put it on a pen thank you like you know like where it's like like wine girls or whatever and then it's just like you know coffee mom like yes coffee mom yeah because yeah I can I know sleep mom sleep so this is why it's really interesting when you look at again it comes down to that consumerism and the commercialized like bullshit yeah and nobody's actually saying are you guys okay yeah are you maybe we should do something about this maybe we should and whether I for some people I think uh HRT is definitely what the like could be a part of the answer um and sleep hygiene is part of the answer um you know and maybe some sleep aids are a part of the answer like there's multiple different things but like can we just acknowledge and say instead of being like buy our cooling sheets buy our energy drinks you know buy our menopause caps whatever it is you know they don't I'm I'm joking um you know instead of just rolling with the dollars and being like man women are suffering and we can bank on this can we please just try and look into it and say okay okay you know gig is up you're not okay we're gonna try and we're gonna try and figure this out yeah we want we see you we see you and we really want to help you right in a time that our mental health is so affected and we feel so invisible and we're functioning as shells of human beings can someone just be like no no actually we don't we don't want to sell you something a product we want to just help you we want yeah it's like and then having also though normalizing women just being like I need just a minute I need the what do you call them charging stations or whatever yeah we're gonna call them power stations power stations yes I I just need I access to a power station I need a power station uh and this is you know this is why I didn't sleep I'm too hot I think if I have a raging headache in Japan they have like nap pods or something a hundred percent they do so like that that right there it's not like the talk the technology doesn't exist exactly to build these accommodations if we take a global view I think we could find the items and and situations that we need we just need we we need the powers that be to get on board yes because the and that's sort of like my last little commentary on cons consumerism like I often think to myself what do they do for like you know in order to like indoctrinate people into cults there's I know there's like many many levels.
SPEAKER_02Good gravy she's going hard for deprive right they sleep deprivation lack of nutrition and isolation but I would go so far as to say they actually use temperature as well probably probably right right so they we're gonna freeze them out. Right so I understand it's like a bigger conversation but I'm saying when it comes to like mind manipulation those are kind of like your your pillars yeah and so and torture right yeah so then you have me who loves a gadget but like I'm on Instagram at like 4 a.m yeah and someone's like oh you can't sleep and I'm all like desperate and uh awake at four and I don't eat well and I because I you know again like gastro things obviously and then like all of the things and I'm isolated because not a lot of women talk about this.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02And so I'm like I am also ripe for the picking a hundred percent. So none of us who are even aware that this is like manipulation when you're in your most desperate state yeah so it feels predatory to me.
SPEAKER_00I'm just going to say it feels like you're being preyed upon. Yes. Yeah it does it definitely feels like you're being preyed upon and then because you're sort of mentally emotionally vulnerable right like you're in this you're in this state of sleep deprivation. So here what's your credit card number I'm gonna solve all your problems.
SPEAKER_02Right and so yes so that I sorry I like I just wanted to that little last commentary because again you would you know my side table what it looks like in in its in all its vitamins we've talked about but because but I'm afraid to stop yeah right and so it's like the migraine helmet the whatever like all the things I will I am that person when I it's 4 a.m and I am desperate. Yeah and so anybody out there who's like making stuff or thinking about like marketing to perimenopausal women like can we have a conversation about ethics and like sort of like maybe asking perimenopausal women what they want yeah and if there's anybody out there that has an idea around you know a natural holistic or you know easily accessible like something that's accessible to all I don't want to spend this much money like like let's make it accessible. Let's make it barrier free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah a hundred percent let's make it barrier free. So if you have an idea out there or you're working on something let me be the first person in line to be your cheering squad and tell you go go off queen. Go off king.
SPEAKER_02Yes get that done write us shout us out menopause mixtape at gmail.com absolutely let us know what you're up to let us know what your ideas are yes absolutely because like hey if you have like a startup or whatever and we feel that it aligns with our like honest belief about ethics and supporting women and like actually seeing people who and it's gonna help me get some sleep. Okay there's that my friend Aaron get some sleep. If you have somebody who wants to like come rock me to sleep every night like I'm here for her. But yeah so thank you so much I'm gonna go to bed now okay um and uh I hope everybody out there in podcast land is having a stellar day and or and good night to everyone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah sweet name sweet dreams everyone good night
